Coming to America: How International Companies Can Enter The USA Market- Fernando Cariello Ep89

Quotes:

“Americans don’t buy based on pricing; they buy based on value and risk assessment.”– Fernando [10:41]

“Without the money, you cannot hire the people to bridge the gap to the market or help you do the right thing to understand the process.”– Fernando [26:18]

Your international expansion is a spinoff of your company, and you’re the investor now.”– Fernando [26:41]

Coming to America: What You Need to Know About Expanding Your Business to the US Market

Have you been thinking of expanding your business to the US market? Different markets operate differently due to different trade regulations and consumer behaviors. It is important to have the right information and support when entering the US market to ensure success.

In this episode of the Page One Podcast, Luke Peters speaks with Fernando Cariello about the dos and don’ts when penetrating the US business market. Fernando has 29 years of international experience, 23 years in High Tech, and 16 years supporting IT companies to establish operations in the US. He’s a partner of the incubator CuboStart, under the lean startup concept, and co-founder of Base Miami, an accelerator supporting technology companies to develop business globally using Miami as a platform. He’s also a mentor and investor in technology-based companies, with 9 current portfolio companies, and 4 exits.

Listen in to learn how and why some businesses fail and others succeed in the US market. You will also learn about the common mistakes you should avoid when entering the US market to avoid failure at first glance.

Key Takeaways:

  • How to understand the difference between your country and the US market and consumer behaviors.
  • How to use your creativity and start a business in an unpopular niche that makes more money than the popular niches.
  • The importance of having financial capabilities when expanding your business to the US market.

Episode Timeline:

  • [2:31] He explains how they help overseas companies that want to operate in the US.
  • [4:48] How overseas businesses fail in the US for not understanding their market or adopting the US way of doing business.
  • [7:52] He explains how a Brazilian tech company succeeded in the US market doubling its profits and size.
  • [9:52] Understanding the difference between your country’s market and the US market, plus the Americans purchasing behaviors.
  • [13:50] The impact of how trade laws, regulations, and restrictions work in different countries like Brazil and how they work in the US.
  • [17:54] The importance of starting a business in an unpopular niche since that is where the money is, plus an example in the food business.
  • [21:56] How to start your business with a business model canvas to help guide you.
  • [24:45] Fernando explains the common mistakes that businesses make when expanding to the US market.
  • [27:56] He advises on the importance of maintaining good relationships with the people who closely relate to your business.

Luke Peters: Thanks everyone for joining us on the Page One Podcast. I’m your host, Luke Peters, CEO of NewAir Appliances. And in this episode, you’re going to learn from Fernando Cariello about Coming To America. How companies that are new to America can understand the culture and succeed here. So this is going to be really an interesting episode about a topic we haven’t talked about. Companies from Latin America or other areas of the world coming to the American market and how they can break in and succeed here.

Luke Peters: Before we get going though, I’ve got a really important announcement. We are looking for vacation homeowners who want to join our cause. You can learn more about it at vetcation.org where we’re helping veterans get a vacation, get a vacation for their family. And we’re looking for caring homeowners who can spare a week in August to really make this a vacation of a lifetime for some of these deserving families.

Luke Peters: If you’re interested, again, please go to vetcation.org. This is something that I started up this year, but I’ve been doing it for 10 years at my own vacation house. And just got my arm twisted a little bit to take this nationwide, so we’re looking for some support. It’s going to be a great cause and change some lives. And please get involved if you can. If you know somebody with a vacation home, point them this direction and email me.

Luke Peters: Okay, great. So Fernando has lived an international career living in five countries. He’s done business in Africa, India, Europe, and the Americas working in engineering, mining, and defense. He has 29 years of international experience, 23 years in high-tech, 16 years supporting IT companies to establish operations in the US. He’s a partner with the incubator, CuboStart, under the Lean Startup concept and co-founder of Base Miami, an accelerate to supporting technology companies to develop business globally using Miami as a platform. He’s also a mentor and investor in technology-based companies with 15 current portfolio companies and four exits. Welcome to the Page One Podcast Fernando.

Fernando Cariello: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. A pleasure to be here.

Luke Peters: Usually I ask folks to describe their business, but it looks like you’re involved in a few different things. I guess we could talk about CuboStart or even the companies that you’re involved with here. Why don’t you describe what you do for companies.

Fernando Cariello: What we do in a concept, we support companies from overseas that want operations in the US. Everyone talks about startups, startups, startups, [inaudible 00:02:44] in the US and that the investors, and then they raise them so they create a business model and the tribe in the US or their field, that’s what they do here. When I think of our best market spaces, in a way, it’s companies from overseas that are successful over there and they want to transfer this knowledge to their tribe here, but they need to bridge the gap.

Fernando Cariello: So what you do is, we’ve inspired this opportunity companies that have attraction, that direct approved technology approved offer service. And they want to come overseas, and help them understand how the West market works. So, with intricacies and things like that. And that’s our business model. And we hold hands with them. It’s not something that you just talk about, and just mentorship. We actually work with them on a daily basis on the who to talk, what to talk, what you do.

Fernando Cariello: We have a team that comes together and they form basic facts like administrative function. I do the accounting and we don’t need to take care of it. We embrace that in the incubator site. And we do them ourselves. It’s not just recommending an accountant, or an attorney, or someone. We actually work with them on a daily basis.

Luke Peters: Great. Okay. And it was funny, like I was writing at the title of this one and I call it Coming To America. And I don’t know if you know this, Fernando, it’s actually a really funny American film from 1988, with Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall. It’s the first thing that came to my head when I wrote the title down.

Luke Peters: Yeah, no, this is a definitely a unique story on the podcast. And why don’t we start with a story around one of the companies that you helped. Why don’t we start this way. You could tell us a story of a company that was maybe successful before entering the US Market, but failed here and why they failed. And the reason I ask is, because this will tell us maybe, how the market here is different, and how companies might not know how to prepare, how to successfully roll out over here.

Fernando Cariello: And just like the movie, the Coming To America, they’re launching the Coming to America two next week, right?

Luke Peters: I know.

Fernando Cariello: [crosstalk 00:04:57] for a bit there. So the key word that I like to mention that say would the market fit. Usually the US is the biggest economy in the whole world. So everything happens here. It’s so big that people don’t understand that you can be on a niche market and still be really big. And I have a company that we were supported from the zero that they were, they have a large plan there. They have like a 38 stores operation there that he used to sell. It’s a big box store, a large operation that use SAP as their tech stack.

Fernando Cariello: So this company, we’re very proud of this plan that they have there. When they came to the US, they had a meeting with the client here that was the same kind of the Sabrina stores. And they present, “So we are this company. We work with SAP, we use the [inaudible 00:05:49], we do that.” And then the client look and think that, “We are a small corporation. We don’t use SAP. We are very small.” Then the guy says, “How small you are?” “We are distributor operation. We have only 42 stores of our own, running Microsoft stack, and we serve also 10,000 small retailers.

Fernando Cariello: So we are very small company on the South East area of the United States. So, we can’t afford SAP. You guys are too big for us.” And when he said, it’s too big for us, that’s when the click happened. The moment of insight happened. They are not too big. This is the right company they can work with, just the technology stack was different. And we’re not mentioned, why this is a fail. It’s that they are marketing. They are best clients that is about SAP and in the US, clients of this size do not use the tech stack. They use another tech stack, and they could not bridge the gap.

Fernando Cariello: So they need to either, go up in the log of their clients, looking for clients that use SAP as a tech stack, that’s what they are good of. Or they knew to move on the technology side to serve this kind of company, the same kind of company. They need to move sideways and to adopt another technology stack. So this as a fail, is not understanding how is your market and how the different technologies, the different adoptions, the different way of doing business in the West makes a failure, right? But for me, that’s very good example of the issue that they have here.

Luke Peters: Yeah. That is really interesting. And then, how about coming from the other direction? Tell us a story about one of the exits that worked. It’d be great to hear any details if we’re able to share, how big that exit was, what’s the reason the company did so well, maybe how long it took. That’d really be great to hear.

Fernando Cariello: Oh, okay. In 2003, we created an investment fund down in Brazil, to invest in technology companies, like what we do. A company that we use more bio technology. That we invest on. And this company in just five years, got a lot of traction and start serving companies internationally. And what the clients ask you to open the company is in every country of Latin America. And we did the executive decision and instead of company as investors of this company, instead of opening a company in every country in Latin America, we open in there, office in Miami. And like our sales office here. And they start managing all non-Brazil constructs from the Miami office.

Fernando Cariello: With this, we maximize profits for the company. The evaluation went higher and four years later another investment fund, like what to do. We did merge. It’s another mobile company in Brazil. So the company is like double in size, double evaluation. And just two years later, we had another investment company that bought us out completely. So we left the company in 2015 and left. In 12 years, we make a company from zero to a $50 million operation. Those are really good.

Luke Peters: Wow. That’s awesome. And what was the company? It was a IT company? Or what service or product were they selling?

Fernando Cariello: It was an IT company. So they develop technology for a manufacturer that want to manage sales, mobile sales.

Luke Peters: Yeah. That’s awesome. And now speaking of that one, so that’s pretty interesting. You guys kind of consolidated operations in Miami. How hard is it for international companies to set up business here in the US? I mean, do we make it easy? Do we make it hard? How does it compare to other Latin American or other countries that you’ve worked in?

Fernando Cariello: It’s not easy, nor hard. It’s different. And that’s the key to understand the difference that you have between the US. And other countries. People say that regulations wise, if everyone complains about the laws in Argentina and in Brazil, and that’s so hard, it’s easier to go in Chile. And in the US, you don’t have a single set of regulations. We have the federal and 50 more on top of it.

Fernando Cariello: So it’s not even no hard, it’s different. You understand that every state has a different mindset, and it’s a special regulation of the rules that you need to follow. So what’s important to understand that, the US as a country, is a very unique business behavior. You need to understand that. And understand that, Americans don’t buy based on pricing. That is very ingrained in Latin American culture to be the lowest price, always wins.

Fernando Cariello: That’s not true for Americans. You will buy based on value and risk assessment. It’s not the lower price that wins the bid, it’s the fair price that they base on their value we see. So when the company understands that the bridge to get on top of the West mindset, and understand that you need to conquer. We will need to conquer all of the contracts, but to understand that, it’s better to sell for a higher price than to get all good bits for a lower price. That makes your operation not feasible.

Fernando Cariello: Another thing that’s different. That companies went overseas, “Why don’t you open office in the US.” He’s not the US. They’re open an office email location, and a geography and a market. I’m not selling to the whole US. If I’m in Miami, I don’t have a problem selling in Idaho, but it’s a different mindset of the way I’m doing business that you have there. We have companies that we support that are in 10, 15 different states selling there with local teams and the work in there based on the rules.

Fernando Cariello: The idea of that, before running to conquer whole America, you need to walk first, before you walk into crawl first. We need you to select a niche market, grow on it. Niche market doesn’t make it to a geography of the demographics. Need to understand what it means to your company. That example, I can be at the manufacturer of just breaks for bicycles, or breaks for every kind of two wheel vehicles, or breaks for every kind the four wheel vehicle.

Fernando Cariello: These are different niche markets that you determine which one we’re going to work with. And after that, you’re going to grow on it. The difference in the US that there’s that in the market for any kind of business that you want to do. You just need to understand where is your niche market and work there.

Luke Peters: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I was actually doing some research and I have some friends, actually, who sell a little bit more internationally. And I think for a country like Brazil, for example, has like really high tariffs to sell into. In fact, I was talking to somebody in the surf industry, and they had a hard time competing in Brazil. They’re all over the world. And Brazil is huge in surf.

Luke Peters: I’m not sure you knew that or not, but they got some like amazing surf stars. So that the surf industry has really grown over there too, but the tariffs are really high. And then of course over here, we’re dealing now with tariffs with China and a lot of the import export and supply chain is getting hit by that.

Luke Peters: You’re mostly in the technology side, but do you have any thoughts on tariffs and restrictions, and how that hurts or helps business? Or do you think it’s actually kind of overblown? And if people understand, say how to go into Brazil, it’s not as hard as they’re making it out to be. I’m just curious your thoughts on that.

Fernando Cariello: Yeah. Brazil is very unique on the protection side, the regulations on that. The goal of the government that was great in the like, 60s or 70s, was to foster the local manufacturing and economy. And today is based on creating jobs. I think that you heard that before, like we raise up, there’d be great shops locally. It really works and doesn’t work like that, right. There is not a true and fair answer to that.

Fernando Cariello: In Brazil, there’s higher taxation for foreign companies on the selling side. On the other hand, if you want to invest in Brazil and create a local plan and develop your product there, you become, it’s become very competitive. And there are regulations. It’s easier to invest money, and to send the business back to other countries, then she’ll actually to Brazil. So, that depends on the scale of the business that you’re doing.

Fernando Cariello: Maybe it’s easier to create some kind of partnership or joint venture, or just create an operation there. Right? The example that I say is that, for instance, cell phone Apple does not manufacture the iPhone in Brazil, but iPhone and other Android, someone expects you to have a local plan. Now you understand that why Brazil is 90% android. And a very small part of the population use Apple iPhones because it’s much more expensive. They need to pay the tax on that.

Fernando Cariello: With that, and I see that it’s easier to blame Brazil. Yes, it’s not easy. I cannot say. I have a sense that Brazil is not for amateurs. You need to understand that. And though [inaudible 00:15:38] looks easier when you said there was no tariff you should do, but to have red tapes here that are different from the red tapes that you find based on tariffs and regulations. There are more red tapes in the US based on angel shoe compliance.

Fernando Cariello: In the healthcare industry, the HIPAA or the first [inaudible 00:15:57] PCI’s, or even the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities act. They create several red tapes for foreign commercial. So here, people don’t realize that, right. Only when you are to work with that. Either way, you cannot sell it here, because you are not compliant to this set of regulations. It’s not a tariff. It’s not punishable by my money situation, but it’s, in a way, you need to invest to meet compliance for that.

Fernando Cariello: That dissolve the root for the whole situation. You ask as much more open than any other country in the world. That’s correct, but it’s not fully open as people realize it. And going back to Brazil, you can do business and [inaudible 00:16:43] to sell locally. They just become expensive in comparison to whatever they have locally to buy. And that’s the comparison that you have. For you to be competitive in Brazil on pricing, you need to understand the regulations and how to offset that on investments in the country.

Luke Peters: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Thanks for that explanation. And that’s exactly what this guy that I talked to, I don’t want to give away the exact industry, but it was in the surf industry. And he just said, it’s just too hard to compete with the brands that are already in there, but I can understand why the government’s doing that. They want to really create a manufacturing powerhouse. And so I get it, but it’s really interesting to see both sides. And then of course the red tape we have over here. Why don’t we shift to something else?

Luke Peters: I mean, look, Fernando, you’re working with so many different companies in so many different industries. And so, if you were to start a business right now or advise, especially if you were to advise a young professional just starting out in entrepreneurship, what type of business model or sector or category would you suggest? What do you like best right now?

Fernando Cariello: Oh, that’s a hard one. I’ve been dabbling in several industries. One thing that I realized after so many years, that first you need to have pleasure in what you’re doing. And pleasure means that, it’s not that you’ll be having fun all the time, but you are, you don’t complain every day going to work. I work with the same thing every day, so that’s one thing you have to have starting. And the second thing is, that you must do something that’s so [inaudible 00:18:25] thing for someone else. And that you think that what you’re doing is better based on your experience or business experience of the people that you know. So business, that’s where you create the market.

Fernando Cariello: In a way, I will look for something that people don’t usually like to do. Why? I see Kevin likes to do and make it easier. It’s easy to go to the beach, do surfing. That’s a fun thing. Everyone wants that, but if you do something that people don’t like there’s more money on it than you, than you have on something that people just have pleasure in doing it.

Fernando Cariello: So, another example, I like cooking. I like to. People say that I would be a chef one day. And the cook business is very attractive today, right? That’s where it makes it a little more off the checks and everyone should go. Everyone should do that, But for the business, it’s not just a restaurant. It’s not going to the kitchen and do a dish. The food businesses start in a farm, with cows and with cattle, and land, and give them distribution. And that’s all for business in the restaurant that cooking it. And there’s not glamorous side of it, right?

Fernando Cariello: One thing that people forget that, after the restaurant, they are still cooking business. They need to clean this out, you need to go to the landfill, you need to treat the [inaudible 00:19:51] in the kitchen, they need to do all the ugly work of it. And one thing that I would do a business at some that I was, I copied from a friend of mine. And he developed a technology to clean commercial kitchen. And I think you realize clean commercial kitchen, for what is that, right?

Luke Peters: Well, actually I used to work in a donut shop. So, when we were kids, that was our family business Fernando. So I actually know how to clean a kitchen. When I was 12, 13 years old, I used to have to do the dishes in a commercial kitchen. So I did it the manual way. That’s how we cleaned it.

Fernando Cariello: Exactly, but I think I about, on an automated magic way, that I had a company to clean your donut shop and just take use of the old oil and make it something else. This is the guy, this guy’s clean up technology that Not only clean the kitchen, make it up to code and also, use all the old oils and things that are left over in the kitchen that you don’t throw in the trash, and make it usable. He charged the restaurants to collect the oil. And then, sell the oil, so it’s double money. He’s making more money on his food business that is to clean it and collect than the most restaurants that he works for.

Luke Peters: Yeah.

Fernando Cariello: So it’s a great business model.

Luke Peters: Yeah. That is so interesting. It’s so true also. I mean, some of those restaurants are on super thin margins, right? And here comes the contractor to come in here and offer that service and his margins are probably great. And like you said, people don’t want to do that job, or they don’t know how to do it. And he probably doesn’t have a ton of competition. So yeah, that is, that’s a great example right there.

Luke Peters: When you work with these companies that you advise, are you writing business plans or are you, I’m just curious, like the ideation stage. You mentioned lean startup. Are using any of those models for putting together initial plans?

Fernando Cariello: Oh yes. We adopt the business model canvas.

Luke Peters: Oh yeah.

Fernando Cariello: It is a easy thing to work with. People just see it and understand it’s just a single sheet of paper. You look it up in there, right. And what I like in the canvas is that, we started in the middle with the value proposition. You don’t start with how much money I’m going to make. No. You understand what you’re going to watch your value proposition. That’s your stuff. That’s your first hypothesis.

Fernando Cariello: You can, in the canvas, you go to the right side of it, and to start work on the right side of it. Then you come back so [inaudible 00:22:37]. Then you go back to the value proposition and say, “Does this make sense?” It’s a checks and balance of the whole idea in the beginning, right?

Fernando Cariello: So that’s, for me, it’s easier to work. You don’t need to have a PhD in anything in economics to create a canvas. You just need to have common sense, basic calculation and it guides you to understand what you’re doing. The canvas is not the only tool around it. There are several other tools, but this is the one that I believe that are for people that are starting their business. It’s a good starting point.

Luke Peters: I agree. And I’ve got a couple of books. But is there like a specific website or software tool you use for that business model canvas?

Fernando Cariello: Not really. We just use the template that [inaudible 00:23:24]. I think it’s a canvas that [crosstalk 00:23:27]. Just google it and you’re going to find it. We’ve tried some software that racked up the canvas for you. And in a way I’m very basic, a very basic person. I like to have the printed paper on my hands. I just write stuff down and put the notes on it and make it work. So I think helps the brainstorming session. I’m doing this now online.

Fernando Cariello: So we share the file to start writing on top of it. So we have a shared folder that we use that. And that’s it, but you don’t need to start on a tool for that. Although I’ve seen, and I still have a friend of mine that creates a canvas for innovation that helps that draw the thinking process on it. But you can start with just a piece of paper and make it work.

Luke Peters: That’s great advice. Thanks for that, Fernando. Because we’ll try to put that in the show notes so everybody can check that out, but yeah, it’s an awesome tool. So listen, you’ve written about the seven deadly sins when entering the US market. Zeroing in on the most deadly, what is the biggest defender or most common problem that these international companies have when they come into this market?

Fernando Cariello: [inaudible 00:24:47] is the result of many years of shame, failing and seeing what was the fail people make, right. And I always mentioned what could be the first one? The market fit. You don’t realize that this is the marketing nature, trying to offer product. But if I want to select the second most important one, it’s funding. It’s lack of funding.

Fernando Cariello: People come to America without a dollar in the pocket, and I’m going to make it big here. It’s not quite like that. Even think about that startup company that you start with zero money, and you start borrowing money from friends and family and grow your business. How long does it take? Two years, three years, four years to get something that you’re sleeping in a mattress someplace, that you are sharing an apartment. So these are the kind of sacrifice that you are working on. To come to US without money, trying to grow your business.

Fernando Cariello: What I’ve seen though, is that most of the company that wants to come to US, they’re not really startup companies. They are foreign owned, they have some traction, they have money. Or they’re founders are already in a stage of flight, that they are going to be prompt to share a bed with someone else, like a true startup that company does here. So that means that they doesn’t fund this company enough. And they try to try. And without the money, we cannot hire the people to bridge the gap to the market. We cannot hire the people to help you do the right thing, to understand the process. And they fail, because they did not invest in the process as, let’s say, as an investor do on a start up company.

Fernando Cariello: What I usually recommend is, your international expansion is a spin off of your company and you are the investor now. Do your pitch for yourself. Will you invest in a startup company, in the US that you will be the founder and you’re going to be leading the process? If you answer yes, raise your fund money and invest in yourself. If you say no to yourself, that’s not a problem, but understand that no one else is going to say yes to you as well.

Luke Peters: That’s good advice.

Fernando Cariello: Right? That’s it.

Luke Peters: Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it’s under-capitalized. I mean, they say that with pretty much every business. So I can just imagine if somebody comes here and they don’t have the capital, and then maybe isn’t even used to that startup lifestyle like you mentioned. So, that good insight. Fernando, you’ve had a lot of experience. It was good getting your feedback and hearing your opinion on if you’re a young person, what business, or what category would you go after? And you kind of gave your ideas there. I kind of want to hear overall business advice on this one. Like, what’s the best piece of business advice that you’ve ever received?

Fernando Cariello: It’s all about people, right? To understand people, the needs or desires. Patience will help. It Happens with that. We don’t build a business for the business itself. You are serving the people on the other side. On the other side of the contract, is a person. On your side of the contract, that is also persons with you. They’re the people that you are forming together, your team. You need to respect them and understand that all their weight, so if you don’t care about your team, your team will not care about you. If you don’t care about your clients, the clients are not going to care about you. You feel carrier support.

Fernando Cariello: If anybody else around you, your service that you offer, it makes no sense. I’m going to be making things that people cannot use. They’re going to make, be producing things that people don’t like, I’m going to doing things that, just because I want you to do it. If you understand the people and how they are the mechanics of the people around you, makes your tribe.

Fernando Cariello: So people is everything, right? There are very few business that I know that there’s not a person behind it and making a decision for you. Even in government. The government is the collective people that represent us. And I used to say that I’m very humanistic about it. Everything that you see around your work is created because we are human, right?

Fernando Cariello: If your car has a car seat, it’s because you have a back and you have legs to sit on it. If you have a fail, our car seat is going to have a hole in its product. They are to go through it, right? But you don’t have fails. So, to understand that how people behave, and what you have, and who you are, make it easier to make a business to try. So I think the best advice that I received that think about people. And people are the center of everything.

Luke Peters: Yeah. That’s a great way to think about it and understand people. And I like that. I think sometimes people get too much into the tactics and, this is high level and just understand what everybody’s thinking and how you’re impacting people. So I think its great advice. How can listeners find more about you and learn about you in the companies you’re involved with, Fernando?

Fernando Cariello: Oh, perfect. We have a website. That’s very easy to get. It’s base.miami. That’s it. Just type, base.miami, you reach our website. We have a ton of information about doing business in the West, we have a great blog. We also have a nice unique page. The base.miami pages has lots of information. We’ve tried to schedule things every day to make it financial hybrid. We have some calls on that. And my personal page is just link it in, put Fernando Cariello. You’re going to find me very easy. Cariello C-A-R-I-E-L-L-O and you can just put it on LinkedIn. You can message me, I’m always there. That’s my social network of choice.

Luke Peters: Awesome. And that’s base.miami. We’ll have that in the show notes, so everybody can see that. And really enjoyed speaking with you today, Fernando, and learning your story. And before we let everybody go, just want a quick reminder here that, listen, we need your help on this new vacation homeowner project, where we’re trying to connect you and your vacation homes with families, veteran families, that need a simple vacation for their family.

Luke Peters: So if you’re a vacation homeowner, please hop over to vetcation.org, and you can see how we’re supporting these veterans with dream vacations. We’re launching on Purple Heart Day in early August. So we’ve got a lot of work to do. Please email me or get connected with me if you want to join, or if you have a home, or if you know somebody else that has a home and you want to get me connected there. Really appreciate you joining the cause. Vetcation.org, and hope everybody enjoyed the interview today. I truly appreciate your reviews on iTunes and hope you join us for the next interview.

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.base.miami/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cariello/


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